Free Will vs. Determinism

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Another aspect of it's religious influence as far as Christianity is concerned, is that free will is specified in the religion.

I love your illustrations, you've done a brilliant job of explaining this clearly. I generally understand and agree with what you say, but I am still unsure of whether I agree with you. But then I don't have any problem with things being completely abitrary and random. I do not know if I even think that's possible. I haven't really sorted out my ideas in this area.
I don't have a problem with it being random, though I do prefer the idea that it's not. I do have a problem with the idea that the randomness leads to the classical view of free will that we are in control, as some people weirdly seem to.
As far as I can see it, the only other explanation is that there is an element of complete randomness...

Personally, in my grappling with free will vs determinism, I am on the deterministic side, but on the side of SOFT determinism. The element of randomness I see is prettymuch straight taken from chaos theory. I know, many people think the butterfly effect is a complete crock, but there's something there.

For instance, take two seeds from the same apple: they have the same genetic material. Take soil from the same bag. Two pots cast from the same mold of the same material. Water from the same source. Same sun, same shade. Will you get exactly the same tree? No. The branches will fork off differently for each tree. What influenced each branching, specific splitting of cells, drawing this molecule of water as opposed to that one? The reason is there.

Now, instead of soil and water, imagine you live in a bustling city. Sitting next to someone on the bus as a child and overhearing something said could completely change how you view people. Say you're white and you hear a black person talking about drugs. You may forever be wired to have a suspicion of every black person, even though you've logically known that this isn't the case for every black person. And the worst part is, you may not even remember having seen this. It's just in there, acting on your perception of reality, affecting your decision to double-count your change from the cashier because their skin is dark.

If you want a mechanism to go in that box with a question mark, it may never be given to you. If there is a pattern, you may never see it. I think that's the beauty of life. It gives us room to breathe, to think that things are within our control when they're not, and that things are beyond our control when they're not. The best part about this is the flexibility it allows us. Human experience is consistent with both free will and determinism, and whichever side starts arguing will always be right (depending, of course, on the arguer).

A quote I read from Simon Blackburn kind of sums up how I feel about this whole thing.

"[Our] awarenesses, our capacities to think of alternatives, our evaluations of them, and our eventual behavioral routines [encoded in the brain] might have been highly inflexible. But the evidence suggests that they are the reverse. People can quite naturally grow up caring about a whole variety of things. It is quite difficult to detect any universal pattern at all: flexibility rules. Human beings can grow to make killing fields, or they can grow to make gardens."
Indeed, I also subscribe to the butterfly effect theory, I kind of skipped over that aspect in my description as I was meerly trying to put across an explanation of what the box represented so that someone could perhaps give a free will perspective.
It's a nice description you have given though, and much appreciated. Good quote too.
Perhaps a choice can be determined by everything around you and still come from you. How did you become the person you are? You internalized things from your environment, right? If things didn't happen that way, you wouldn't be you. But every choice depends on you, even though you're shaped by your enviornment. It's you doing them.

Have you heard of Chaos theory? I think that would be a pretty good definition of how humans make choices. We are determined by our causes, but those causes are nearly infinite. Any tiny change in your past will change your decision drastically. So much so that no two people have ever made the same set of choices.

But does that even matter for free will? Don't we *want* our choices to come from our character? This view does encourage us to pity those of us who fail, but that doesn't mean they are absolved from moral responsibility.

We have the freedom to be ourselves.

As far as Christianity goes, I don't believe exclusivism is a valid tenet of the religion at all. But then, I get in trouble for saying that a lot. ;)
Sorry, when I started typing this, vintagefury hadn't left her comment yet. ;)

Yes, we have the freedom to be ourselves. But the argument would be that we are not free to chose who "ourself" is. But in order for society to function, indeed for individual lives to function we must view it from a higher more abstracted level.

*copies and pastes from facebook*

aHA... (the diagrams dont show up when i go on your vox blog; the whole thing now does actually make sense for which i thankye)
and *punches air* i DO have a valid contribution to make: http://en.wikipedia.org/wi
ki/Laplace%27s_demon i thought so it does exist!! it's basically sometimes used to illustrate the concept of determinism.. it doesnt really work very well but its interesting!
in regard to your colossal internal struggle.. im afraid im going to be boring and go with a combination of free will and determinism (there is a name for it but i cant remember it.. *blushes*)
people act a certain way, each person differently, and if that person has free will then, like you said, the combination of factors that compel a person to, for example, punch a friend (any history of violence in the family, any history of violence in your upbringing, a tendency to bottle things up and so eventually overreact/ a tendency to overreact anyway, the consequences of any omg ive run out of room :s)
at this point i had to go out and try and get back in again ^^
oh crap i was actually getting quite insightful, believe it or not >:@ and now i have NO idea what i was saying.. -_-
yes.. well.. hmm.. err so if you DO punch your annoying and insultuous friend then that action is a result of you and your environment, neither of which you have much control over, so like you said that basically brings you back to determinism, but at the same time, if you do not punch your annoying and insultuous friend because you discover that you have slightly more tolerance than you thought, you still could have punched him, and the fact that you didnt cannot really be considered as a source of frustration. if, to avoid getting onto theological ground and using up another comment, we call someone mr X, and mr X gives andrew january a certain sensitivity to being called, say, mr potato man, coupled with very DAMN ive overrun again this is utterly pointless wish i could delete this comments see you on vox!!
Hi, me again, and Im so so sorry i cant even leave a comment without it being screwed up..
so basically, long story short, andrew january doesnt like being called mr potato man, has a moderate puttingupwithit threshold and has very powerful x-men type fists.. o_O hmm.. i was going somewhere with this.. ah yes, andrew january AT THAT TIME has the free will to choose whether or not to punch his friend. he has the capacity to be the bigger man, but also the capacity to be the smaller man but have a warm fuzzy feeling of sudden self-esteem. which is basically the point its taken me half an hour to ^^
and now mums having a rant at me and basically doesnt seem to believe in my right as an individual to express my opinions at 23.34 on a school night..
so i shall end here

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